魏京生：「中國政府的奧運會已經是個失敗」 （西班牙世界報）
2008年8月13日，西班牙的網頁點擊及發行量最大的報紙《世界報》發表了對魏京生先生的專訪。以下是本人儘可能就原文的理解及中文的原意所作的一個協調版本。請讀者以西班牙原文為準，不足或不准之處請見諒。
-- 黃慈萍
中國被流放的持異見者魏京生：「中國政府的奧運會已經是個失敗」
-- 世界報特別記者 RICARD GONZÁLEZ
美國首都華盛頓消息 – 魏京生是被流放的最重要的中國民主活動家之一。他於1950年生於北京。因為發表文章而入獄18年。幸好有國際社會尤其是克林頓行政當局的壓力使得他得以於1997年被放逐到美國至今。
問：不久前在布殊總統去北京前不久，你受到了他在白宮的接見。你對他說了什麼？
答：我對他說，因為他要去參加奧運的開幕式，我對他很失望。布殊及其它的西方政府給中國的當政者送了錯誤的信息，以致造成最近這幾個月鎮壓的升級。
問：布殊當時是什麼反應？
答：他說他已經知道我對他的立場予以嚴厲的批評。他很有禮貌和真誠。他這個人不壞，但我不敢保證他是一個極其聰明的人。
問：但是，他在亞洲的時候，還是堅持做了一些對侵犯人權的批評。。。
答：的確，那對他的錯誤是個糾正。西方必須改變其對中國的政策。通過增加貿易關係是得不到真正的改變的。在貿易關係上得好處的是跨國大公司，而非中國人民。許多中國人開始認為西方並不真正關心民主，而只是關心生意。
問：你認為中共政權辦奧運成功嗎？
答：已經是不成功了。事實上他們不得不動用數十萬計的警察和軍人來避免抗議正顯示了這個政權不得人心。
問：但這個政權好像足夠穩定。。。
答：那是一個假象。這個政權的基礎是脆弱的，到處都是裂痕。一般的老百姓與掌握國家的特權階級之間的差距是巨大的。而且在黨內也有不同意見。大多數人沒有從經濟增長中得到什麼好處，還有極端的貧窮。這象一個大火藥桶，任何時候有個火星就可能爆炸，發生一場革命。
問：最近幾個星期里，有這樣的一些試圖。你譴責嗎？
答：不。被鎮壓的人民有權反抗。即使是美國的憲法也保證人民反抗一個非法政權的權力。
一個政府絕不能超出界限，蓄意傷害老百姓。
問：你就西藏問題什麼看法？
答：要解決西藏問題，必須是通過使藏人滿意的談判。西藏有權要求自決。
問：你有沒有看奧運的開幕式實況？
答：沒有。我太忙了，也沒有興趣。
登載採訪魏京生的文章的報紙影像：
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（魏京生基金會首發。請註明出處：www.WeiJingSheng.org）
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魏京生基金會及中國民主運動海外聯席會議以推動中國的人權與民主為己任。
我們歡迎任何形式的幫助與貢獻。我們願與世界上為人權與民主而奮鬥的人們一起努力。
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電話： 1-202-543-1538 傳真：1-202-543-1539
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閣下之所以收到本信，是因為閣下以前曾表示有興趣了解魏京生先生和中國民主運動。
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Wei Jingsheng Foundation News and Article Release Issue: A407-W219
魏京生基金會新聞與文章發佈號：A407-W219
Release Date: August 15, 2008
發佈日：2008年8月15日
Topic: Wei Jingsheng: "The Olympic Games is Already a Failure for China" (EL MUNDO of Spain)
標題： 魏京生：「中國政府的奧運會已經是個失敗」 （西班牙世界報）
Original Language Version: Spanish (English at the beginning, Spanish in the middle, Chinese at the end)
此號以西班牙文為準（英文在前，西班牙文在中，中文在後）
Note: Please use "Simplified Chinese (GB2312)" encoding to view the Chinese parts of this release. If this mail does not display properly in your email program, please send your request for special delivery to us or visit:
http://www.weijingsheng.org/report/report2008/report2008-08/ElMundo080815WeiJSinterviewA407-W219.htm which contains identical information.
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On August 13, 2008, El Mundo, the leading newspaper in Spain, published a special interview with Wei Jingsheng. The following is the best possible compromised English version by this editor. For the most correct meaning, please read the Spanish version first. The Chinese version is a combination of the original Chinese answers and the published version.
-- Ciping Huang
WEI JINGSHENG / Chinese dissident-in-exile:
"The Olympic Games is Already a Failure for China"
by RICARD GONZÁLEZ
Special for EL MUNDO
WASHINGTON. – Wei Jingsheng is one of the most important Chinese democratic activists in exile. Born in 1950 in Beijing, he spent 18 years in prison for publishing an article. Thanks to pressure from the international community, especially from the Clinton Administration, he was deported to the USA in 1997, where he has resided since.
Question: You were received by Bush in the White House a little earlier before his trip to Peking. What did you say to him?
Answer: I s aid that I was very disappointed because he helped the opening of the Olympic Games. Bush and the rest of the Western governments have sent a wrong message to the authorities in China, resulting in increased repression in the last a few months.
Q: how did Bush react?
A: He said to me that he already knew that I was very critical with his position. It was polite and cordial. Bush is not a bad person, but I am not sure that he is a very intelligent man.
Q: Nevertheless, when he was in Asia, he had forcefully stated a few criticisms of the violations of human rights …
A: True, and that helps to correct his error. The West has to change its politics towards China. Real change will not come by means of increasing the business relations. This is an argument that only serves multinational business, not to the Chinese people. Many Chinese are beginning to believe that the West does not really care about democracy, but only about business.
Q: Do you think that the Olympian Games will be a success for the Chinese regime?
A: No, already it cannot be. The fact of that they have to mobilize hundreds of thousands of police officers and military personnel to avoid protests demonstrates that they have failed the relationship between the people and the regime.
Q : But the regime seems stable enough …
A: That is a false appearance. In its foundation, it is fragile, full of cracks. The distancing between the ordinary citizen and the privileged elite that governs the country is enormous. Also there are disagreements inside of the party. The majority of the population has not benefited from the economic growth, and there is a great poverty. In any moment a spark might exploded into a new revolution.
Q: In the recent weeks, there have been some attempts. Do you condemn them?
A: No. Suppressed people have the right to rebel. Even the American Constitution grants the right to rebel against an illegitimate government. This limits a government cannot go beyond is that it should not deliberately harm the general population.
Q: what is your opinion on Tibet?
A: It is necessary to find a solution for the political state of Tibet through negotiation that satisfies the desires of the Tibetans. For me, Tibet as a nation, has its right to self-determination.
Q: Did you watch the opening ceremony of the Olympian Games live?
A: Not, I am too busy and I was not that interested.
Photo of the El Mundo article with the interview of Wei Jingsheng:
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Spanish version:
WEI JINGSHENG/ Disidente chino exiliado enEEUU
«Los Juegos ya no pueden ser un éxito para China»
RICARD GONZÁLEZ
Especial para EL MUNDO
WASHINGTON.– Wei Jingsheng es uno de los principales activistas pro democráticos chinos exiliados en el extranjero. Nacido en 1950 en Pekín, Jingsheng pasó 18 años encarcelado por haber publicado una carta en la que denunciaba las condiciones inhumanas que sufrían los reos de la prisión de Qinsheng. Gracias a las presiones de la comunidad internacional, sobre todo de la Administración Clinton, fue deportado a EEUU en 1997, donde reside desde entonces.
Pregunta.– Usted fue recibido por Bush en la Casa Blanca poco antes de su viaje a Pekín. ¿Qué le dijo?
Respuesta.– Que estaba muy decepcionado porque había asistido a la inauguración de los Juegos Olímpicos. Bush y el resto de gobiernos occidentales han enviado un mensaje incorrecto a las autoridades chinas, recompensándolas a pesar de que hayan aumentado la repression durante los últimos meses.
P.– ¿Cómo reaccionó Bush?
R.– Me dijo que ya sabía que yo era muy crítico con su postura. Fue educado y cordial. Bush no es un mal tipo, pero no estoy seguro que sea una persona muy inteligente.
P.– Sin embargo, una vez en Asia, ha realizado unas críticas contundentes sobre la violación de los derechos humanos …
R.– Cierto, y eso ha servido para matizar su error. Occidente debe cambiar su política hacia China. Los cambios no llegarán a base de incrementar las relaciones comerciales. Ese es un argumento que solo sirve a las multinacionales, no al pueblo chino. Muchos chinos empiezan a creer que a Occidente no le importa realmente la democracia, sino sólo los negocios.
P.– ¿Cree que los Juegos Olímpicos serán un éxito para el regimen chino?
R.– No, ya no pueden serlo. El hecho de que hayan tenido quemovilizar a centenares de miles de policies y militares para evitar las protestas demuestra que han fracas ado a la hora de mostrar la supuesta comunión entre el pueblo y el régimen.
P.– Pero el régimen parece bastante estable …
R.– Es una falsa apariencia. En el fondo, es frágil, lleno de grietas. El distanciamiento entre el ciudadano medio y la elite privilegiada que gobierna el país es enorme. También hay disensiones dentro del partido. La mayoría de la población no se ha beneficiado del crecimiento económico, y hay mucha pobreza. En cualquier momento podría saltar una chispa que hiciera estallar una nueva revuelta.
P.– En las últimas semanas ha habido atentados. ¿Los condena?
R.– No. Un pueblo que está oprimido tiene el derecho a rebelarse. Incluso la Constitución Americana otorga el derecho a la rebellion contra un gobierno ilegítimo. El límite que no se puede traspasar es atacar de forma deliberada a la población.
P.– ¿Cuál es su opinión sobre la cuestión del Tíbet?
R.– Hay que encontrar una solución al estatuto político del Tíbet de forma negociada, y que satisfaga los deseos del pueblo tibetano. Para mí, el Tíbet es una nación, y por lo tanto tiene derecho a la autodeterminación.
P.– ¿Vio la ceremonia inaugural de los Juegos Olímpicos en directo?
R.– No, estoy demasiado ocupado.
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中文版
Wei Jingsheng Foundation News and Article Release Issue: A407-W219
魏京生基金會新聞與文章發佈號：A407-W219
Release Date: August 15, 2008
發佈日：2008年8月15日
Topic: Wei Jingsheng: "The Olympic Games is Already a Failure for China" (EL MUNDO of Spain)
標題： 魏京生：「中國政府的奧運會已經是個失敗」 （西班牙世界報）
Original Language Version: Spainish (English at the beginning, Spainish in the middle, Chinese at the end)
此號以西班牙文為準（英文在前，西班牙文在中，中文在後）
如有中文亂碼問題，請與我們聯繫或訪問:
http://www.weijingsheng.org/report/report2008/report2008-08/ElMundo080815WeiJSinterviewA407-W219.htm
